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Comparison of Orizaba soldier with soldiers in Northwest Georgia

Comparison of Orizaba soldier with soldiers in Northwest Georgia

 

Both the soldier from Orizaba and the one from Etula (Etowah Mounds) are wearing copper crests on their leather helmets. POOF subscriber, Wayne Ivy, noticed the connection.  By the way, check out the 1996 movie,  “The Arrival” – starring Charlie Sheen.    Much of the movie was filmed in . . . would you believe? . . .  Tepotztlan, Tula and Taxco, Mexico.   The plot of the movie is that extraterrestrials chose the site of the first city in Mesoamerica to establish their prime base for conquering Earth.   Throughout the movie, I kept on scratching my head and saying, those volcanic mountains and street scenes sure do look like Tepotztlan, but they couldn’t be.  At the end, in the credits, I discovered that it was indeed filmed in Tepotzlan.   Many UFO’s have been spotted over and near Tepotztlan in recent years.

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Richard Thornton is a professional architect, city planner, author and museum exhibit designer-builder. He is today considered one of the nation’s leading experts on the Southeastern Indians. However, that was not always the case. While at Georgia Tech Richard was the first winner of the Barrett Fellowship, which enabled him to study Mesoamerican architecture and culture in Mexico under the auspices of the Institutio Nacional de Antropoligia e Historia. Dr. Roman Piňa-Chan, the famous archaeologist and director of the Museo Nacional de Antropologia, was his fellowship coordinator. For decades afterward, he lectured at universities and professional societies around the Southeast on Mesoamerican architecture, while knowing very little about his own Creek heritage. Then he was hired to carry out projects for the Muscogee-Creek Nation in Oklahoma. The rest is history. Richard is the Tribal Historic Preservation Officer for the KVWETV (Coweta) Creek Tribe and a member of the Perdido Bay Creek Tribe. In 2009 he was the architect for Oklahoma’s Trail of Tears Memorial at Council Oak Park in Tulsa. He is the president of the Apalache Foundation, which is sponsoring research into the advanced indigenous societies of the Lower Southeast.

8 Comments

  1. urisahatu@yahoo.com'

    Richard T., Very interesting article just like the other article “Everything that you ever wanted to know about the indigenous word, Tula . . . but were afraid to ask”.
    It’s a good observation from Wayne Ivey.

    The following will sound too far fetched yet when you take a closer look maybe it’s not that too far fetched after all.

    From wikipedia “Mahiole” quotes:
    “Hawaiian feather helmets, known as mahiole in the Hawaiian language, were worn with feather cloaks (‘ahu ‘ula). These were symbols of the highest rank reserved for the men of the aliʻi, the chiefly class of Hawaii.”
    “While the Hawaiians did not wear hats, during times of combat the Ali’i chiefs would wear specially created wicker helmets that have been likened to the classic Greek helmets, and also co-incidentally bear a resemblance to the headdress worn by Ladakh Buddhist religious musicians. While the question has been posed if the influence is from the Spanish, the tradition comes from the northern coast of New Ireland.”
    “A related Hawaiian term Oki Mahiole means a haircut where a strip of hair is left on the head. The image of the Hawaiian god Kū-ka-ili-moku is sometimes presented with a similar shaped head.”

    From wikipedia “‘Ahu ‘ula” quote:
    “The ‘Ahu ‘ula (feather cloak in the Hawaiian language), and the mahiole (feather helmet) were symbols of the highest rank of the chiefly ali’i class of ancient Hawaii. The feathered cloaks and capes were believed to provide spiritual protection for Hawaiian chiefs.”

    From wikipedia “Feather cloak” quotes:
    “Elaborate feather cloaks called ‘ahu’ula were created by early Hawaiians for the ali’i (royalty).”
    “In Māori culture feathers are a sign of chiefly rank, and the kahu huruhuru (feather cloak), is still used as sign of rank or respect.”
    “The elite class of poets known as the filid wore a feathered cloak, the tuigen.”

    From wikipedia “Kū” quote:
    “In Hawaiian mythology, Kū or Kūka’ilimoku is one of the four great gods.”
    “Feathered god images or ‘aumakua hulu manu are considered to represent Kū.”
    “Kū is worshipped under many names, including Kū-ka-ili-moku (also written Kūka’ilimoku), the “Snatcher of Land”

    From wikipedia “Fili” quotes:
    “A filí was a member of an elite class of poets in Ireland, up until the Renaissance.”
    “The word “file” is thought to derive from the Proto-Celtic *widluios, meaning “seer, one who sees” (attested on the Gaulish inscription from Larzac as “uidluias”, which is the feminine genitive singular form), derived ultimately from the verb *widlu-, “to see”. This may suggest that the filí were originally prophetic poets, who foretold the future in the form of verse or riddle, rather than simply poets.”
    “a decision was made in the 6th century to limit the number of fili to certain families who were respected and believed to be poets as a birthright. The greatest of these families included the Ó Dálaigh (O’Daly), several of whom were accorded the rank of ‘chief ollamh of poetry of all Ireland”

    From wikipedia “Ollamh Érenn” quotes:
    “The Ollamh Érenn or Chief Ollam of Ireland was a professional title of Gaelic Ireland.”
    “An ollam (literally ‘most great’) was a poet or bard of literature and history. Each chief or tuath had its own ollam.”
    “Over all the provincial ollams was the Ard-Ollamh (Rí-Ollam, Rí-Eigeas, Príméces) who held the official post of Chief-Ollamh of Ireland or “Ollamh Érenn.”
    ———

    In an earlier article “Everything that you ever wanted to know about the indigenous word, Tula . . . but were afraid to ask” you write about the region between Tepotztlan southeastward to Orizaba, where a little known people lived who were tall, wore beards where the oral tradition of Quetzalcoatl began among these people. Also the bearded people of Orizaba are portrayed in “Olmec” art and seemed to have been the elite or at least major participants in this civilization.
    As you and others (POOF readers) know ;if not will learn; that Quetzalcoatl means “feathered serpent” in the Nahuatl language. In the Maya language Kukulkan means “plumed serpent” or “feathered serpent”. It is believed that Kukulkan has its origins in the classic Maya period and was known as Waxaklahun Ubah Kan, the War Serpent” who is identified as the “Vision Serpent” of classic Maya art.
    Further more you also write about the word similarity between the pre-Gaelic Irish Thule and Tula with a possible link.

    Now when you take the Hawaiian (Polynesian) feathered helmet (Mahiole), feathered cloak (‘ahu ‘ula) and Kū or Kūka’ilimoku into account you will begin to see quite some more similarities.
    I have provided links below to compare the helmets and faces in the stone encravings and “Olmec” stone statue.

    When you take a close look at the pictures you will see a strong similarity between the Hawaiian, Orizaba, Olmec and the Etula / Etowah helmets and you will also see that the men (helmet wearers) have beards and mustaches.
    In Hawai’i feathered god images are considered to represent the Hawaiian demi-god Kū or ;in this case war-god; Kūka’ilimoku. Can it be that the Hawaiian feathered demi-god Kū is linked to Kukulkan/Quetzalcoatl “feathered serpent/snake”?
    The feathered cloak is also of importance since in Hawai’i and Aotearoa (New Zealand) where those were worn by the Ali’i/Ariki (royalty / chief) while in Ireland feathered cloaks are worn by the filid (plural; fili singular) the elite class of poets.
    These Irish Filid are seers who can see (into) the future thus they are so-called prophetic poets which one could translate as those who have/see visions. Knowing that the Filid were promoted to “Ollam”/”Ollamh” who have a chief status and practically equal to kings/royalty we can see how much similarties they have with at least the Hawaiians, New Zealanders (Maori), Orizaba bearded people and possibly the Etula/Etowah.

    Also eventhough the Hawaiian helmets look like classic Greek helmets; similar to buddist headdresses and having been suggested to have been influenced by the Spanish, the tradition comes from the northern coast of New Ireland. That’s right, New Ireland is within the Lapita Cultural area.

    When putting the above into order:
    1. Kū or Kūka’ilimoku and Kukulkan/Quetzalcoatl are feathered demi-gods.
    2. Hawaiian and Orizaba elites wear similar helmets at least in form/appearance.
    3. Hawaiian, Orizaba, (Olmec?) elites (seemingly) wear breads and mustaches.
    4. Hawaiian, Maori and Irish Filid/Ollam chiefs (kings/elites?) wear feathered cloaks.

    Note:
    – Kūka’ilimoku means the “Snatcher of Land” which is basically someone who conquers land. (did followers/believers of Kūka’ilimoku conquer parts of the Americas?)

    Sources/Links:

    Mahiole – feathered helmet
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Mahiole_(feathered_helmet).jpg/1070px-Mahiole_(feathered_helmet).jpg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahiole

    ‘Ahu ‘ula – feathered cloak
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Haalelea%27s_Feather_Cape.png

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBAhu_%CA%BBula

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feather_cloak

    Mahiole and ‘Ahu ‘ula Ali’i (Chief) Kaiana
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Cloak_Helmet_and_Chief.jpg/640px-Cloak_Helmet_and_Chief.jpg

    Kū – Kū or Kūka’ilimoku is one of the four great gods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%AB

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Kuka'ilimoku.jpg/640px-Kuka'ilimoku.jpg

    Filí – Elite class of poets in Ireland
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil%C3%AD

    Ollam – Member of the highest rank of Filí
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ollam

    Ollamh Érenn – Chief Ollam of Ireland
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ollamh_%C3%89renn

    Everything that you ever wanted to know about the indigenous word, Tula . . . but were afraid to ask
    https://peopleofonefire.com/everything-that-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-indigenous-word-tula-but-were-afraid-to-ask.html

    Reply
    • That is amazing about the connection to northern Ireland. Apalache-Creek soldiers wore cone shaped wicker hats. The same style hat was also worn in eastern Peru.

      Reply
      • urisahatu@yahoo.com'

        It is indeed amazing and surprising to see a (possible) connection with Ireland.
        If you remember; couple months ago I posted some comments and links regarding the early Bronze age Lurgan Canoe of Ireland.

        The Lurgan Canoe, an Early Bronze Age boat from Galway – October 21, 2014 – By Colm

        Quotes:
        “Over 4000 years old, the Lurgan canoe was discovered in 1901 by Patrick Coen as he worked in a Co. Galway bog that had once been a shallow lake. It is carved from a giant oak trunk and measures over 14 m (45ft) long by 1 m wide.”
        “Inside the boat they left a series of raised ‘ribs’, which appear to separate the vessel into sections, as well as number of small holes, possibly to secure attachments. This has led some archaeologists to suggest that the boat may original have been joined to a second canoe to form a catamaran type-vessel or else that an outrigger of some kind was attached (Cribben et al 1999)”
        “The scale of the logboats suggest that they were made for a specific purpose under the direction of skilled boat builders with experience in that craft (after Cribben et al 1999)”
        “Similar vessels are known from certain parts of the world, for example in New Zealand, where they were used as war canoes.”
        “More mundane activities, such as trading, can not be ruled out either, especially if the canoes formed part of larger, composite boats, such as a catamarans or an out-rigger-canoes. Such vessels would have been capable of carrying heavy loads over long distances and their stability would have allowed them sail across open-water, and indeed the sea.”

        The fact that the Hawaiian, New Zealand (Maori) and Irish Fili/Ollam chiefs (royalty/elite) wore feathered cloaks and the similar canoe type in Hawai’i, New Zealand and Ireland (Galway) does make one wonder if there really is a connection.
        Couple questions that arise:
        – Was there a two-way diffusion between Pacific Islanders and Atlantic Islanders perhaps via MesoAmerica Orizaba area?
        – Could it be that the Hawaiian feathered war-god Kū or Kūka’ilimoku and Kukulkan/Quetzalcoatl are more or less the same deity?
        – Could a possible two-way diffusion via MesoAmerica explain why the Hawaiian Ali’i (Chief/royalty) wore helmets similar to the Orizaba and Etula/Etowah helmets?

        Note:
        – It is hypothesized that New Zealand wasn’t populated by the Maori Polynesians until circa 900 AD.
        – The Lurgan canoe has been radiocarbon dated to 3940 [ + or -] 25 BP which possibly means the Lurgan canoe builders were present in Ireland 3000 years prior to the peopling of New Zealand by the Maori.
        – The Maori brought the kūmara/kumara sweet potato presumably from South America to New Zealand meaning an east to west migration.

        Sources/Links:

        The Lurgan Canoe, an Early Bronze Age boat from Galway
        http://irisharchaeology.ie/2014/10/the-lurgan-canoe-an-early-bronze-age-boat-from-galway/

        Lurgan Canoe
        http://irisharchaeology.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Lurgan-canoe.jpg

        Maori War Canoe
        http://irisharchaeology.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/MarYearP034a.jpg

        Polynesian Double Canoe
        http://irisharchaeology.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/1024px-Priests_traveling_across_kealakekua_bay_for_first_contact_rituals.jpg

        Reply
  2. urisahatu@yahoo.com'

    Richard T., If you haven’t started working on a youtube video yet on possible link between the Lapita Culture, MesoAmerican Cultures and southeast north American cultures; you might want to read this information first. Maybe one youtube video on this topic isn’t enough; you probably would have to make a series (documentary series).

    From wikipedia Feathered Serpent quote:
    “The earliest representations of feathered serpents appear in the Olmec culture (circa 1400-400 BCE). Most surviving representations in Olmec art, such as Monument 19 at La Venta and a painting in the Juxtlahuaca cave (see below), show it as a crested rattlesnake, sometimes with feathers covering the body and legs, and often in close proximity to humans. It is believed that Olmec supernatural entities such as the feathered serpent were the forerunners of many later Mesoamerican deities, although experts disagree on the feathered serpent’s importance to the Olmec.”

    From wikipedia Juxtlahuaca quotes:
    “Juxtlahuaca Spanish pronunciation: [xuʃtɬaˈwaka] is a cave and archaeological site in the Mexican state of Guerrero containing murals linked to the Olmec motifs and iconography. Along with the nearby Oxtotitlán cave, Juxtlahuaca walls contain the earliest sophisticated painted art known in Mesoamerica, and only known example of non-Maya deep cave art in Mesoamerica.”
    “The most well-known of the cave art is Painting 1, which features a large bearded man with a black cloak, a striped tunic, and an elaborate headpiece. The arms and legs are covered with jaguar fur, and a small jaguar tail is even visible dangling down. The man is brandishing a trident at a much smaller figure crouched to his side and is carrying a long snake or snakelike object. This 2 meter (6 foot) tall painting is one of the rare Olmec-style portrayals of human-on-human dominance, which some researchers interpret as a scene of human sacrifice.”
    “Also of note in Juxtlahuaca is a painting of a red Feathered Serpent with green plumes”
    “Archaeologist Michael D. Coe has estimated that the paintings “might probably be Early Preclassic (1200-900 BC, uncalibrated)” in date.”
    “Juxtalhuaca is, so far as is known, unassociated with any large town of that period. It is also not known how Olmec-influenced art came to be painted hundreds of kilometres (or miles) from the Olmec heartland.”

    From wikipedia Awanyu quote:
    “Awanyu (also Avanyu), is a Tewa deity, the guardian of water. Represented as a horned or plumed serpent with curves suggestive of flowing water or the zig-zag of lightning, Awanyu appears on the walls of caves located high above canyon rivers in New Mexico and Arizona. Awanyu may be related to the feathered serpent of Mesoamerica— Quetzalcoatl and related deities. Awanyu is a frequent motif on Native American pottery of the Southwestern United States.”
    ———

    There are very important clues that you and POOF readers would like to make note of and would like to take a closer look at.
    First of all how is it possible that the Juxtlahuaca cave paintings are painted in the so-called Olmec style while the Olmec heartland is roughly 200 miles to the northeast? The Juxtlahuaca cave painting of the large bearded man is perhaps proof of an encounter between ‘normal’ sized people and giants. The fact that the smaller figure is crouched indicates that the large figure is a giant since if the smaller figure stands up right it would barely reach the shoulder of the large bearded man even if it was painted in an exaggerated manner.
    Also notice the color and shape of the head of the smaller figure and compare it to the Solomon Islands figure which I have provided the links below. When you compare the shape of both heads/faces you will see a striking similarity which would be more proof that Lapita Cultured people were present in MesoAmerica (Mexico).
    If you and POOF readers were not aware yet; the Solomon Islanders are Melanesians. You have practically two types of Melanesians; 1. Papuans who speak an Austronesian language allied to Polynesian. 2. Papuans (especially males) mixed with Austronesians making them proto-Polynesians via maternal line by mtDNA B40101.
    When taking all that into account it seems the Lapita Cultured people (in this case mainly Melanesians?) migrated from the Pacific coast towards / into the Tehuacan Valley encountering bearded giants who later became the elite (royals/chiefs) of the Lapita Cultured people; eventually splitting into multiple groups or kingdoms, some migrating further into the American continents (Meso-/Central-; North- and South Americas) while others migrated back into the Pacific Ocean populating islands like Hawai’i and New Zealand.
    A very interesting fact is the Juxtlahuaca red feathered serpent whith green plumes cave painting which is many decades (centuries) prior to the Maya and Aztec feathered serpents.
    It would explain why there are many similarities between Polynesians from Hawai’i and MesoAmerica and the “Olmec” in particular. The Hawaiian feathered demi-(war-)god Kū or Kūka’ilimoku could either be the origin of the feathered serpent of MesoAmerica or inspired by an existing MesoAmerican mythology or believe system of the feathered serpent. Also the Hawaiians (and Tahitians) have legends about the so-called menehune or manahune who are small statured people sometimes thought as being servants and or slaves to the Hawaiians.
    One has to remember that in the Philippines (Island Southeast Asia) the Austronesians encountered small statured people genetically related to Australo-Melanesians now called negritos. Some of those negritos are known as Mamanwa which is similar to Manahune and or Menehune.

    For some it would be natural to say that the Polynesians were superior to the Melanesians (dark skinned Pacific Islanders) yet readily calling them slaves would give a totally wrong view since most if not all Melanesians have ;or for the majority at least had upto the early to mid 20th century; a warrior lifestyle, headhunting was one of their most feared practices in the surrounding Pacific islands.
    You can take a look at the pictures of the Solomon Islands war-canoes (see links below) which one might mistake for viking-styled ships. Who knows, maybe the so-called “black-warriors” in native American lore were actually Melanesian headhunters roaming on the American continent at one point in time. Notice the Nguzu Nguze/Musu Musu prow headfigures; It is believed when it holds a bird it meant peace (canoes come in peace); when it holds a head it meant war (canoes come to hunt/take heads). The real meaning (correct interpretation) of the prow figureheads at this point is unclear.

    From wikipedia headhunting quotes:
    “Headhunting has at one time or another been practised among most of the peoples of Melanesia, including New Guinea. A missionary found 10,000 skulls in a community longhouse on Goaribari Island in 1901.”
    “Historically, the Marind-anim in New Guinea were famed because of their headhunting. The practice was rooted in their belief system and linked to the name-giving of the newborn. The skull was believed to contain a mana-like force. Headhunting was not motivated primarily by cannibalism, but the dead person’s flesh was consumed in ceremonies following the capture and killing.”

    The petroglyph of the Tewa deity “Awanyu” in New Mexico is also of importance since it depicts a horned or plumed serpent which may be related to Kukulkan and Quetzalcoatl. Sometimes “wa” is spelled “ua” which makes one wonder if Tewa could be Teua and somehow related to Tehuacan (te-ua-can?).
    On the MesoAmerica map (see link below) you can see that Juxtlahuaca where the Olmec type cave paintings are located is close to the Pacific Ocean/coast while the Olmec heartland is at least 200 miles to the northeast on the Gulf of Mexico (to La Venta even 300 miles). Between Juxtlahuaca and the Olmec heartland you have the Tehuacan valley and the Orizaba volcano.
    Personally I think the Lapita Cultured people landed on the south/southwest coast of MesoAmerica somewhere near Juxtlahuaca and enountered bearded giants inland in the mountains towards the Tehuacan valley. Orizaba volcano or mountain range is probably the realm of the breaded giants. Whatever the relation between all these cultures and people might be, it does seem that the Orizaba volcano area is an important link between the Pacific Ocean cultures, MesoAmerican/Mexican Gulf cultures and somehow even related to Ireland and beyond (Scandinavia?).

    Notes:
    – BC means “before Christ”; BCE means “before common/current era”; AD means “anno Domini”, “[the] year of [the] Lord”; CE means “common/current era”. The two notation systems are numerically equivalent, “2018 CE” corresponds to “AD 2018” and “400 BCE” corresponds to “400 BC”.
    – The Lapita Culture (proto-Polynesian?) existed between circa 1600-500 BC while the so-called Olmec Culture existed between circa 1400-400 BC.
    – Tsirege also spelled Tshirege means “bird place” in the Tewa language. Tewa is a Tanoan language spoken by Pueblo people, mostly in the Rio Grande valley in New Mexico north of Santa Fe, and in Arizona.

    Source/Links:

    Feathered Serpent
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathered_Serpent

    Juxtlahuaca
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juxtlahuaca

    Juxtlahuaca – Cave Painting – Giant Elite? (arquelogía – El Arte Rupestre En México)
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9e/34/4b/9e344b784dca9de988e0f6229ec7f441.jpg

    Juxtlahuaca – Cave Painting Drawing (Drawn by wikipedia User:Madman2001 – Madman2001 (copyright)
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Juxtlahuaca_Painting_1.svg/630px-Juxtlahuaca_Painting_1.svg.png

    Juxtlahuaca – Cave Painting – Feathered Serpent
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Juxtlahuaca_Serpent_%28M_Lachniet%29.jpg

    Juxtlahuaca – Map/Location – MesoAmerica Mexico (Formative Period ca. 600 BC)
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Formative_Era_sites.svg/1170px-Formative_Era_sites.svg.png

    “Olmec” Feathered Serpent – Stela 19 – La Venta (Mexico) – (Source/Author: Audrey and George Delange)
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/La_Venta_Stele_19_%28Delange%29.jpg

    Solomon Islands figure
    https://shop.nga.gov.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1500x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/a/varilaku_fc_de.jpg

    Solomon Islands War Canoes
    https://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/661/flashcards/5437661/jpg/war_canoe-145D4660128121B5326.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eXgNCo0zBf4/UEDTg2YhdxI/AAAAAAAABJk/zfwusgBr5FQ/s1600/War0Canoe00Vella-Lavella-1922inkbluesky.png

    Solomon Islands prow figureheads (Nguzu Nguzu/Musu Musu)
    http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/media/thumbnails/collection_images/Alpha/IA160.1962%23%23S.jpg.465x605_q85.jpg

    https://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/377/flashcards/4374377/jpg/ngusunguzu-148C8E2F02E4E9A5D56.jpg

    https://www.sothebysaustralia.com.au/persistent/uploads/netchant_customsothebysaustraliadirectory/19516/image_1/111_1.jpg

    Headhunting
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headhunting

    Awanyu (plumed serpent)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awanyu

    Awanyu – Petroglyph at Tsirege (Tshirege – classic Anasazi Pueblo archaeological site; west of White Rock New Mexico)
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Tsirege_Petroglyph_depicting_Awanyu.jpg

    Orizaba – Map/Location “Starting point of the Kashete-Creek Migration Legend
    https://peopleofonefire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Map-OlmecCivilization-1-1280×640.jpg

    Reply
  3. urisahatu@yahoo.com'

    Additional info:

    Was the plumed or feathered serpent Kukulkan/Quetzalcoatl really based on the so-called Olmec feathered serpent as depicted in the Juxtlahuaca cave painting?

    In another POOF article the feathered serpent has been identified as the oarfish with convinsing arguments.
    So why the question if Kukulkan / Quetzalcoatl is based on the Olmec feathered serpent? The reason is the color of the Olmec feathered serpent which is at least 90% red.
    When you compare the color to an actual oarfish you will see that the oarfish have red dorsal fin rays with the first 10 or 13 being elongated. The skin of the oarfish is silver which doesn’t match with the skin colorof the serpent depicted in Juxtlahuaca.

    Could it be that there was a different species of oarfish yet to be (re-)discovered? Or maybe the Olmec feathered serpent cave painting is depicting a Moray eel.
    There is a possibility that two different species were mixed together which wouldn’t be strange since some Olmec figures tend to be zoomorphic.

    If it wasn’t mysterious enough; there could be a link to Hawai’i since the Hawaiians do have myth and legends about eels.

    In the book “Storied Landscapes – Hawaiian Literature & Place” (1999) by Dennis Kawaharada; quotes:

    “Set in Hana, the story tells how a fisherman became deified as the god Ku‘ula-kai because of his mana in attracting and catching fish. Ku‘ula-kai, “Red Ku of the sea,” was married to Hina-puku-i‘a, “Hina gathering seafood.”
    “After placing Ku‘ula-kai in this mythological context, the story describes a rite of passage for Ku‘ula-kai’s son ‘Ai‘ai. One day a giant puhi (eel) named Koona came to Hana and began stealing fish from the pond Ku‘ula-kai had built to feed the ali‘i of Hana and the community. Ku‘ula-kai and Hina decided to give their son the task of killing the puhi.”
    “The puhi eventually moved to a cave called Kapukaulua (“The ulua hole”), offshore of Hana, near the island of ‘alau, from where he began raiding Ku‘ula-kai’s fishpond.”
    “‘Ai‘ai located the puhi in its cave offshore, hooked it, and had the people of Hana drag it ashore at Leho‘ula, where he slew it with lava stones. With this deed, ‘Ai‘ai revealed that he had the mana to carry on his father’s work. The backbone of the puhi, about 30 feet long, became petrified in the lava flats along the shore, where it remains – a monument to his heroic feat.”

    Eels are elongated fish with the giant moray reaching a length of 4 meters (13ft).

    From wikipedia Oarfish quote:
    “Oarfish are large, greatly elongated, pelagic lampriform fish belonging to the small family Regalecidae. Found in all temperate to tropical oceans yet rarely seen, the oarfish family contains three species in two genera. One of these, the giant oarfish (Regalecus glesne), is the longest bony fish alive, growing up to 11 m (36 ft) in length.”
    “The giant oarfish is by far the largest member of the family at a published total length of 11 m (36 ft)—with unconfirmed reports of 17 m (56 ft)”

    When you remember Kū or Kūka’ilimoku is one of the four Hawaiian demi-gods often described and depicted as a feathered god. In this case Ku’ula-kai could be translated as “red god of the sea”.
    The story about the puhi (eel) is of importance since the slain eel by ‘Ai’ai (Ku’ula-kai’s son) in this particular Hawaiian story was 30 feet which rules out it being an actual eel since a giant (Moray) eel only reaches a length of 13 feet or 4 meters.
    With that fact in mind the only other eel-like creature that comes close to 30 feet is the oarfish. Perhaps the slain eel in Hawaiian legends in fact was an oarfish.

    What about the red skin color (red feathers) on the cave painting of the feathered serpent in Juxtlahuaca?
    The Juxtlahuaca red feathered serpent has green plumes, again not matching the oarfish which has red plumes or red dorsal fins. The red skin or feathers might actually be based on the green Moray eel.
    Yes, Green Moray Eel. Although this species (Gymnothorax funebris) is called Green moray eel it actually has a red/reddish skin color. You can look at the pictures and compare it with the oarfish in the links below.
    Also notice the depiction of Kū or Kūka’ilimoku (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Kuka'ilimoku.jpg/640px-Kuka'ilimoku.jpg) and the mouth of the green Moray eel (https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/2712534595_f6a5d9ccf0.jpg). It does seem like the Moray eel and the oarfish are morphed together to form the so-called Olmec feathered serpent.

    It’s becoming a never ending story. So many to (re-)discover yet too little time to research.

    Source/Links:

    Storied Landscapes – Hawaiian Literature & Place – (1999) by Dennis Kawaharada
    https://www2.hawaii.edu/~dennisk/books/storied_landscapes.html

    chapter: A Search for Ku’ula-kai
    https://www2.hawaii.edu/~dennisk/texts/searchkuula.html
    https://www2.hawaii.edu/~dennisk/texts/kuulakai.html

    Eel
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eel

    Moray eel
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moray_eel

    Green moray eel – Gymnothorax funebris
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_moray
    http://www.web.forumacvarist.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Green-Moray-Eel.jpg
    https://www.gooddive.com/images/stories/greenmorayeel/green-moray-eel-1680-1050-wallpaper-image.jpg
    http://thedigitalstory.com/2010/05/08/green_moray_eel.jpg
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kuf7HSLY-o0/WS02WF9wczI/AAAAAAAAg_c/IAUSgoZ3Fhwh5Dg7p3SKTFgr67XxA60KgCLcB/s1600/Moray-Eels.jpg
    https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/2712534595_f6a5d9ccf0.jpg

    Oarfish
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oarfish
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fb/23/e3/fb23e35cb47a1fce67c2d5de24345b85.jpg
    https://www.ozanimals.com/image/albums/australia/Fish/normal_Oarfish.jpg

    Juxtlahuaca – Cave Painting – Feathered Serpent
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Juxtlahuaca_Serpent_%28M_Lachniet%29.jpg

    Fish fin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_fin#AnchPectoral

    Reply
  4. urisahatu@yahoo.com'

    Additional info (II):

    In Polynesia you have Hina (Sina in west Polynesia) a name assigned to a number of Polynesian goddesses and queens.

    Hina/Sina is very important when comparing the Polynesian serpent with the MesoAmerican serpent deity.
    There are many legends about Hina/Sina throughout Polynesia, mostly connected to the eel “Tuna” or “Te Tunaroa” and various forms of that name and connected to the sea/sealife.
    A couple islands where these legends are known are New Zealand/Aotearoa, Mangaia, Tuamotu, Tahiti, Hawai’i, Samoa and Easter Island/Rapa Nui.

    From wikipedia Hina (goddess) quotes:
    – New Zealand
    “The most common story that presents Hina as the wife of Maui tells of Te Tunaroa, the father of all eels, who one day visited the pool where Hina bathed. One day, as Hina was bathing, the eel-god rubbed against her. This occurred over a number of visits until Te Tunaroa grew bold enough to rub against Hina’s genitals, molesting her.”
    “When Maui heard of this act he went and attacked Te Tunaroa cutting his body into bits, the tail landed in the sea and became the conger eel, whereas the other end landed in the swamps as the fresh water eels. Smaller pieces became lamprey and hagfish.”
    “Hina was associated with phases of the moon under the names Hinatea (Fair Hina) and Hinauri (Dark Hina).”

    – Mangaia
    “A girl named Hina-moe-aitu (“Hina-sleeping-with-a-god”) liked to bathe in a pool that housed many eels. One day, as Hina was bathing, one of the eels transformed into a young man. Hina took him as her lover. His name was Tuna.”

    – Tuamotu and Tahiti
    “For a time, the goddess Hina lived as the wife of Te Tuna, the god of eels.”

    – Hawaii
    “In Hawaiian mythology, there are variations of the name Hina, including Hina-puku-iʻa (Hina-gathering-seafood) the goddess of fishermen, and Hina-ʻopu-hala-koʻa who gave birth to all reef life.”

    – Samoa
    “In Samoa, the equivalent the name Sina referred to in many different stories in mythology. One example is the legend Sina and the Eel which is associated with the Mata o le Alelo pool on the island of Savai’i.”

    – Easter Island (Rapa Nui)
    “In Rapa Nui mythology, Hina takes the form of Hina-Oio, a goddess of sea animals who was married to Atua-Metua.”
    ———

    Here you can see that the legends/stories about Hina/Sina being a goddess connected to the sea/sealife and to the eel “Tuna” is present throughout whole Polynesia stretching from Hawai’i in the north, Easter Island in the east, New Zealand in the south and Samoa roughly in the center.
    An interesting note is that in New Zealand Hina was associated with phases of the moon under the names Hinatea “Fair Hina” and Hinauri “Dark Hina”.

    Another interesting note is that in the New Zealand version Maui cutted Te Tunaroa (Tuna) into bits where its tail became the “conger eel”.
    Out of curiousity I looked up the “conger eel” for more information and the first picture that showed up is of a red skinned / colored conger eel (Conger oceanicus).
    It’s starting to look that the so-called Olmec feathered serpent indeed is a mix between an eel species and the oarfish. One could argue that the oarfish is an eel-like creature at least in its similar appearance.

    Source/Links:

    Hina (goddess)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hina_(goddess)

    Tuna
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuna_(Polynesian_mythology)

    Conger
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conger
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Conger_oceanicus.jpg

    Reply
    • IWG42@HOTMAIL.COM'

      Hey Urisahatu
      In 2017 Richard had written a couple of articles about “river monsters” in the Coosa ans Etowah Rivers. There was also a large snake like fish killed by the people of Augusta that the news paper ran a story on in the 1800″s. The descriptions sound like oarfish. Run a search for river monsters in the site search box,the article will come up.
      Whether they are linked with polynesia and there serpent legend i dont know , but it is a coincidence,
      and something gave them the idea.
      Thanks for a great series of posts
      They always prove interesting

      Reply
      • urisahatu@yahoo.com'

        Hey Wayne I., Thank you for your comment and youre welcome.
        You are right, have seen and read the articles you’ve mentioned. When comparing the depictions of the plumed or feathered serpent the oarfish comes closest in appearance since the front dorsal fin rays of the oarfish look like plumes.

        Why the comparison between the feathered serpent Kukulkan/Quetzalcoatl with the Polynesian feathered war-god Kū or Kūka’ilimoku and the Polynesian legends of the god of the eels Tuna (Te Tuna/Te Tunaroa)?

        If there was no Lapita style pottery and no Polynesian DNA in some of the natives of southeast North America I would have let it pass and not research it further.
        Yet since there are similarities in the pottery style and some southeast North American natives do show up with Polynesian DNA with no recent mixing it is something to take a good look at and not dismiss it as mere coincidence.
        Futher more the sweet potato or kūmara cultivated in Polynesia has its origins in Central- or South America. Also the Lapita Culture (Melanesia and West Polynesia) and the so-called Olmec Culture (MesoAmerica, Mexico) started and ended roughly at the same time.
        There are many more similarities which I have provided information, source material and links to which make a strong case that there was at least a diffusion between Pacific Islanders (Melanesians, Polynesians and Micronesians) and Native Americans. Personally I think there was a two way cultural diffusion between Pacific Islanders and native Americans.

        It’s up to the ‘actual’ researchers to pick up the information and do an exstensive research on this subject matter.

        Reply

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