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More Evidence that Native Americans Discovered Europe Around 3000 BC!

More Evidence that Native Americans Discovered Europe Around 3000 BC!

Yeehaw!  We’uns are high falutin Red Deer !


Interior of a house in Skara Brae, an enigmatic village in the Orkney Islands of Northeastern Scotland that was occupied from around 3,180 BC to 2,400 BC. The polished stone fishing weights found at Skara Brae are identical to those unearthed at Poverty Point, Louisiana.  Both at Skara Brae and at Poverty Point, archaeologists found hundreds, if not thousands of small balls used for dropping into water to steam cook fish and shellfish.  They are stone at Scara Brae and fired pottery at Poverty Point, but the designs are almost identical.  The people of Scara Brae apparently moved away from the Orkney Islands. 

On April 6, 2016  BBC Science Reporter, Jonathon Webb, announced to the world that the famous Red Deer of Scotland were not from Scotland.  In fact, they were not from anywhere near Scotland . . . not even Norway.  They were not genetically related to any of the Red Deer of Europe.  The only way that they could have arrived in Scotland was by boat around the year 3,000 BC.  You can read the article here:  Scottish Red Deer

Webb summed up the article by writing,We think that the most likely source is from an unsampled population somewhere – we could be looking at somewhere like mainland Europe,” the paper’s lead author, Dr David Stanton from Cardiff University, told the BBC News website.  A reference was made to Belgian voles, who arrived by boat to the Orkney Islands via boat around 3,100 BC, according to an earlier study in 2013.

Most Brits probably read the article and were impressed by the skill of the geneticists.   By breakfast time the next morning, they had forgotten the article and moved on to more important things, like the big football (soccer) game coming up between Wales and England.

Having ten years of skepticism toward such announcements behind me, I instantly thought that the assumptions didn’t make sense.  The academician stated that the DNA of the Scottish Red Deer didn’t match any known Red Deer in Europe or Asia, then he said that they probably came from the heart of Europe . . . but by boat.  I read the “Orkney Vole” article. Most Americans call voles, field mice.  The Orkney vole only lives in the Orkney Islands.  There are no voles elsewhere in the British Isles, whereas the Scottish Red Deer lives in other locations in Scotland and Ireland.

Actually, the researchers did not get a match between any voles in Europe and the Orkney voles, but Belgian coastal voles were the closest.  They DID NOT CHECK for genetic similarities to voles in the Canary Islands, Azores Islands, Canada and the eastern US.   The date of 3,100 BC was based on an estimate of how long it would take Belgian moles to mutate to something different.   That is NO proof that Belgian molds rode in boats to the Orkneys.

Red Deer Research

Dark_Hair_IrelandScottish Red Deer (Cervus elaphus scoticus) are indigenous to the northern islands of Scotland, northwestern Scotland and the counties on the Atlantic Coast of  southwestern Ireland.  Most references list them as being from Mainland Europe, because the articles have not been changed to be concurrent with new DNA studies. One finds these deer in the exact same Irish counties, where dark hair and more skin pigments are predominant.  See the map on the left. What would be the connection between non-Gaelic physical features and Cervus elaphus scoticus?

If Red Deer were being boated from the mainland of Europe (such as Belgium) those are the least likely locations that you would expect to see them. They would be in eastern Scotland and not at all in Ireland. Clearly the facts are not jiving with the speculations made by the DNA scientists.

Scottish Red Deer are most abundant in County Kerry, Ireland on the southwest tip of Ireland, not the Orkney Islands.  County Kerry . . .  that’s the Irish county that has many petroglyphs identical to those in North Georgia?   It was time to draw some lines between the points.


American Elk

3,000 BC . . . the date when the geneticists think that Red Deer were boated to the Orney Islands is the exact time period when University of Alberta archaeologist, Gordon Freeman, thinks that indigenous peoples introduced stonehenges to the British Isles, including the Orkney Islands.  You can read more about that in a recent POOF article on possible Phoenician voyages to North America around 2,200 BC.  See:  Is this a Phoenician temple?

Shezam . . . the American Elk is the largest member of the red deer family.  For unknown reasons,  early British settlers chose not to call them Red Deer, but called them elk . . . which is the European name for a moose. American Elk and European Red Deer have no problem breeding and produce offspring that are fertile.

The biggest difference between the two animals, other than size, is the shape of the antlers and the number of points. American elk antlers typically have 14 points and rarely more than 18.  European and Mediterranean Elks can have anywhere from 24 to 66 points on their antlers.  The European antlers are also broader at the mid-section, even though overall they weigh less.

Photos of Scottish Red Deer and American Elk were compared with several species of Red Deer in Mainland Europe.  As you can see below, there are some noticeable differences in the antlers.   Both the American Elk and Scottish Red Deer typically had 14 points on their antlers.  The Red Deer in Denmark, which is directly across the North Sea from Scotland, has 24 points and a much thicker neck.  The Red Deer in Greece also has 24 points on his antler.   Notice that the antlers of European and Eurasian Red Deer typically curve inward.  The antlers of the American Elk and Orkney Red Deer turn upward.  The American Elk and Scottish Red Deer are very close in appearance.


A European Red Deer Stag can weigh up to 440 pounds (190 kg).  The extinct Eastern American Elk stag that lived from Quebec to Georgia could weigh up to a 1000 pounds (455 kg).  How could such large animals be carried in the primitive boats of the Neolithic Period?  That is a very  pertinent question.  Whether one is crossing the Atlantic Ocean or the North Sea, one can expect extremely cold, rough, stormy waters.  Such waters would be impossible for a dugout canoe or even a small sailboat today.

Dr. Gordon Freeman from Alberta thinks that humans may have taken dog or caribou sleds along the edge of the Arctic Ice Shelf in order to reach Europe.  He speculates that they took along light weight igloos for use in fishing along the way.  Several articles mentioned that Bronze Age Europeans domesticated some types of Red Deer.  Perhaps Red Deer pulled their sleds instead of caribou.

The BBC article did not mention the indigenous Red Deer of western Ireland, because evidently the Scottish and American geneticists did not study them.  However, the spokesman did say that they compared the Orkney Red Deer to ALL known Red Deer.  May be they did.  Maybe they didn’t.   For several decades, geneticists insisted that the Sammi (Lapps) didn’t have any Asiatic genes.  It turned out that all of the universities in the world were using genetic samples of a branch of the Lapps, who lived in Swedish towns and had been intermarrying with the Swedes for 2,500 years.  Full-blooded Lapps in remote areas of Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russian turned out to have just as high a percentage of Asiatic DNA as most Native Americans in the US and Canada.

Official Irish government references state that their Red Deer have been in Ireland as long as 10,000 years and that they are genetically different than European Red Deer.  The Irish Channel between Ulster and Scotland is only 12 miles wide.  Crossing the Irish Channel would have been a much simpler task than the North Sea or Atlantic Ocean.  It is only seven miles from the closest island in the Orkney archipelago  and the Scottish Mainland.  In either case,  rafts could have been built to transport livestock or Red Deer.

Whether Scotland’s Red Deer came from North America or southwestern Ireland, one fact remains that cannot be fully explained.  The same petroglyphic symbols were carved into the rocks in the Orkney Islands,  Southwestern Ireland, Ven Island, Sweden and the North Georgia Mountains.  How can that be?


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Richard Thornton is a professional architect, city planner, author and museum exhibit designer-builder. He is today considered one of the nation’s leading experts on the Southeastern Indians. However, that was not always the case. While at Georgia Tech Richard was the first winner of the Barrett Fellowship, which enabled him to study Mesoamerican architecture and culture in Mexico under the auspices of the Institutio Nacional de Antropoligia e Historia. Dr. Roman Piňa-Chan, the famous archaeologist and director of the Museo Nacional de Antropologia, was his fellowship coordinator. For decades afterward, he lectured at universities and professional societies around the Southeast on Mesoamerican architecture, while knowing very little about his own Creek heritage. Then he was hired to carry out projects for the Muscogee-Creek Nation in Oklahoma. The rest is history. Richard is the Tribal Historic Preservation Officer for the KVWETV (Coweta) Creek Tribe and a member of the Perdido Bay Creek Tribe. In 2009 he was the architect for Oklahoma’s Trail of Tears Memorial at Council Oak Park in Tulsa. He is the president of the Apalache Foundation, which is sponsoring research into the advanced indigenous societies of the Lower Southeast.



    I think I recall that there are red deer in the Hawaii Islands.


    Its more complicated than that.
    Red deer or elk were imported twice, which the geneticist missed.
    In the Irish Annals,
    In 2286 BC, a deluge swept across Ireland and caused Newgrange to collapse.
    A hundred years later, in 2186 BC, the Fomorians arrived in Ireland. They came in six longboats, each holding 100 people, half men and half women.
    2186 BC was the seventh year of drought, which forced the Fomorians to migrate north from their homeland in northwestern Iberia – Galicia and northern Portugal – , in search of land with water. They had been copper miners until driven to the sea by drought. Both pottery and metal ware matches that from northern Portugal.
    They migrated with their herds across Spain, turned north, crossed France, and headed for the Baltic. At the Rhine they were stopped by fierce Saxons. According to Frisian spies, the migrants debated a long time, then split, half going east toward Poland, half going west toward Normandy. Those who went to Poland built ships and settled eastern Sweden in 2185.
    The Fomorians under Cichol Grenchos fully expected Ireland to be richly populated, a verdant oasis, based upon fishermen’s tales from before the deluge. They built six longboats, left their animals in Normandy across from Ireland, and crossed the English Channel, promising to be back in a few days to ferry the animals across. But Ireland was empty, houses deserted, no fires, no living soul. They paddled one more day, as far as Dublin, then hastily sent empty boats back to Normandy, for there were no animals left alive in Ireland.
    But cattle rustlers had followed their herds, killed the few shepherds, driven the herd south to waiting boats on the Loire, ferried them across the wide estuary, and disappeared. The longboats returned empty.
    It was a disaster, for England was also bereft of animals. For two hundred years the Fomorians lived on fish and fowl. Without milk supplements, their birth rate plummeted and the next wave of immigrants easily conquered them.
    How was this possible? Because Hekla in Iceland occasionally erupts as a strato-volcano, spewing glass and fluoride high into the atmosphere, which then drifts whichever way the wind blows and kills all animal life wherever the mixture falls. Hekla is called the Gateway to Hell, the shortest route to death. In this case, the wind blew from Iceland to Ireland and England, probably France as well.
    I once read a nurse’s manual, which advised that if you think your patient has come in contact with fluoride, RUN. The patient is already dead, and if you touch the patient or his clothing you too will die.
    Thus there were no red deer in England or Ireland in 2186 BC, so they must have been re-introduced.

    • Thanks for writing POOF.

      As you might have gathered, I have grave concerns about geneticists making bold pronouncements about history, based on genes, when they don’t know their history. You just gave an excellent example of the Irish history that the non-Irish geneticists don’t know. At least the Irish geneticists are aware that there are the vestiges of a non-Irish aboriginal people on the western edge of Ireland. I have noticed that English-produced DNA maps don’t even show this older population.

      Here is the problem Stuart. The geneticists claim that the Orkney- NS Scottish-Kerry County Red Deer are genetically unrelated to all European Red Deer. Did they really compare the genomes of the Scottish Red Deer to ALL Red Deer in Europe . . . or is it a situation like the Sammi? Academicians sat in their college offices around North America and the UK making pronouncements about the Sammi without ever meeting a Sammi or knowing that the Sammi were divided into distinct tribes like American Indians. So when they used “Sammi” DNA samples from a town occupied by Scandinavians,Boden, they did not know how non-representative they were. Many moons ago, I worked in Sweden and visited Boden on the way to visit with the Sammi. Boden is not even north of the Arctic Circle. I didn’t even realize that any Sammi lived there. Nevertheless, for 40 years academicians insisted that Sammi had no Asiatic DNA, based on DNA samples from Boden. Now the geneticists are discovering that in certain areas, Germanic Scandinavians also carry some Asiatic DNA markers.


    Are the ancient people of scotland the picts from america .

    • Hey Jeff

      According to Irish anthropologists there was an aboriginal people in Ireland with black hair, bronze skin and non-European faces. Most were driven out of Ireland during a 20 year long rain between around 2340 BC and 2320 BC. Anthropologists are not sure who the Picts were, but most think that they were related to the Gaelic peoples in Ireland and Scotland.


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